Notes 8 it is
by Volker Weber
Ed Brill just started calling "Hannover" Notes 8. It's good to see that IBM stops dancing around this name. Beta 1 just left development for the first 500 users. Since I had one confusing situation where Ed was referring to a version he was using, and I was assuming he was working with the Eclipse client, and he wasn't, I asked which version he is talking about, the Eclipse client or the classic client. I received this answer:
There is only one Notes 8. It can be installed in various configurations, with the primary configuration being the Eclipse RCP, productivity editors, activities, etc. Another install option, intended primarily for low-end hardware, is to install Notes 8 without Eclipse, which results in an incremental update to the existing Notes client.
There is only one Notes 8, but there are two configurations: New Coke and Classic Coke. New Coke is Lotus Expeditor (TAFKAWMC) with the Notes plug-in* and yada yada, Classic Coke is what you know as Notes today. Domino Designer and Domino Administrator will also be Classic Coke, if I am not mistaken.
As development has now shipped the first beta to internal users, let me make a wild guess, when IBM will ship this release. I'd say: No less than 10 months. Mark you calendars.
*) In Mary Beth Raven's words:
As most of you know, the Hannover release of Lotus Notes takes Lotus Notes and makes it into a big plug-in to Lotus Expeditor (the IBM version of the Eclipse rich client platform).
Do not miss the comments on Mary Beth's posting. It looks like she has threatened to remove the "security blanket" from Linus Van Pelt.
Comments
Once again, this horrible term "Plug In" makes it sound like something it isn't. This is Eclipse terminology for ANYTHING that runs on the Eclipse framework.
If you have used Eclipse to write Java code, you're using a PLUG-IN compiler, editor, debugger, etc. Everything in Eclipse is a plug in. That's the name for the way the architecture works.
Basically, what they're saying is that Notes 8 can install like an upgraded Notes 7, or can install with the Eclipse framework and thus gain any additional functionality inherent in that configuration (which remains to be fully revealed and it's value determined). Clearly loading the whole thing is going to take some solid memory and drive space and need a good processor (or two).
Frankly, I think we should be happy they're not forcing the Eclipse route down anyone's throat. Instead, if it has value enough in our opinion to warrant the drive space and memory requirements -- and probably the startup speed that comes with -- then we'll load it and use it. If not, we've got a major enhancement to our old favorite Notes client.
Let the value of the new stuff drive it's adoption. That, IMO, is a solid policy.
--AP
The New Coke/Classic Coke reference is very useful here. Coca Cola made a huge mistake with New Coke, and only after it failed did they relent and allow Classic Coke back on the market. IBM is releasing both flavors simultaneously. Will IBM's New Coke bomb? Maybe. But if it does, at least we don't have to stage a consumer revolt to get Classic.
PS I love Linus. The things he can do with that blanket! We should all be so talented...
PPS To be perfectly clear: I don't expect Notes 8 in Eclipse to bomb. I do expect it to need good hardware to perform well. But then, the same issue exists for Vista, Office 2007, and most other brand new software.
Why that surprised about the version name and numbering? It is almost a year, that officials at IBM said something like "The name is not yet official, but you may bet on it, that it is something between 7.9 and 8.1".
And yes, me too, I would like if we can retain criticism until we get our fingers wet with the product. I think, there is no point in commenting about what "Notes 8" is or is not at the time beeing, and if it is a good thing, that it comes in various install versions. We have not had the chance to play with it yet.
Jens, "something between 7.9 and 8.1" has now been resolved to Notes 8. As I said, it's good to see that IBM stops dancing around this name. As for criticism, so far I only head loud praises for something nobody has had a chance to play with.
What's the problem with saying there is one client that runs on different platforms? One of those platforms is Eclipse (or Lotus Expeditor. Uurgh, that's a horrible name), one is Windows. The platform may add additional features / some features may only be available on a particular platform.
Kerr, thanks. That's a great way to explain it. One download, one client, multiple checkbox options at install.
While I am very impressed with what I'm seeing so far for Notes 8, I must say that "Old" Coke was MUCH better than New Coke. That's why they brought it back as Coke "Classic" and dumped the new version. Not that it matters, I drink Sprite.
It will be interesting to see when we go to R8 here. From what I was told when I came on board, we generally do not upgrade to a new version until it has been around for about 18 months. We're running 6.5 (we have one development server that is on 7.x that was just installed recently) so by the time we are ready to upgrade to R7, R8 will have been out for a few months.
Kerr, you can obfuscate the different architectures in any way you like. You can then explain why some "Notes" 8 applications cannot replicate, or cannot use Lotusscript and Formula language by explaining that it is the same client, but it runs on a different platform.
Rob, I don't think that RCP is a huge mistake as you imply by the failure of New Coke. I just don't have any other example where a company calls two different things by the same name.
Volker,
I am unaware of any Notes client version which cannot replicate, use lotusscript, and use formula language.
I understand there may be added things in the new version that are in the Eclipse based tool because you install them that way. They'll have different models and different characteristics. If I build apps which require them, those apps will need the full eclipse client to run. I fail to understand what the problem is.
After all this talk of Coke and Coke Classic the term Notes Aide (for 8) just popped into my silly little head.
Hello All,
I've read in many blog entries 'the hefty memory/hardware requirements' of Notes 8 (Eclipse version). Does anyone have any idea of the minimum requirements, i.e. 512MB of RAM and so on?
Also, does anyone else know/or hazard a guess on the final release date - Volker is estimating 10 months. Ive read somewhere 2Q 2007 - any other estimates?
I'm using Coke classic for a few month now as my main application and I'm very pleased. I haven't started my R7 client once in that time. Even users not considering new coke will enjoy the upgrade.
The new coke is on track and very promising. While the whole Workplace looks like a big marketing disaster, the technical foundation developed as TAFKAWMC is very promising. I think MBR's work will be the make/brake for that client release and I trust her capabilities.
:-) stw
David, this has not been published, and I think it would be way to early. Take a look at the minimum requirement for Sametime 7.5:
* CPU -- Pentium II 266 MHz (or higher).
* RAM -- 128 MB RAM or higher.
Compare this to what you think is needed and you will see that the minimum requirements will be pretty low. The recommended might be something like 1 GB RAM.
"You can then explain why some "Notes" 8 applications cannot replicate, or cannot use Lotusscript and Formula language by explaining that it is the same client, but it runs on a different platform."
WTF!??!?! Is that ANYTHING but a pure FUD remark?
Nathan, I prefer to call them Eclipse plugins. But since there is only one Notes client, they must be "Notes" applications. Activities might be one example. They don't live in an NSF.
So you're suggesting that if I use the Eclipse architecture install, I can use Activities, but if I do the vanilla Windows architecture install, I can't.
My question is two parts: A) how do you know this about an unreleased product? What information are you privy to here? and B) in what way is that fundamentally different from the different Notes clients now? If I install on a Mac, I don't get Designer capabilities. This is known and published, and by and large accepted by the user community. Does that mean it's somehow unreasonable to call it "one" client? I suppose there's an argument that it is, but in that case, it's a rather petty one.
Notes deals with a LOT of stuff that doesn't live in an NSF, by the way. Not sure where you've been lately to think that THAT's a criticism.
Vowe, I think obfuscate is a bit strong. I'm certainly not trying to obfuscate anything.
Maybe I've got this all wrong, but my understanding was that the Notes client has always had an abstraction layer between the core and the windowing toolkit of the platform it's running on. To have the 'same' client running on different platforms you just need to bind the notes side of things to the windowing toolkit of the platform, be it windows, mac, linux, solaris, os/2, whatever. Lotus has not been providing all of those implementations, and the years mostly windows has probably damaged the abstraction to some extent, but that abstraction is there.
I think if you have the same core code and simply bind an abstraction layer to a windowing toolkit, you have a fairly strong claim to having the 'same' client running on different platforms.
There is the point to be made that some applications will sit directly on the eclipse client and just talk to the Notes client. These applications will clearly not work without the eclipse platform and I agree that there is a marketing headache there in explaining what will run where, especially if those composite applications are simply presented as being Notes 8 apps.
A) how do you know this about an unreleased product?
A number of briefings I received from Lotus. Read the same thing here, comment 3 by Ed:
It can be installed in various configurations, with the primary configuration being the Eclipse RCP, productivity editors, activities, etc. Another install option, intended primarily for low-end hardware, is to install Notes 8 without Eclipse, which results in an incremental update to the existing Notes client.
Activities is a Workplace application. It requires a Websphere server and is only available online. With some work it can be made available as an Eclipse plugin with a local datastore. You will typically keep the data inside a Java RDBMS.
B) in what way is that fundamentally different from the different Notes clients now?
All Notes clients so far have hosted applications inside of NSF databases. Notes 8 will be different because it can host applications as Eclipse plugins.
Thanks, Kerr. That is a good explanation.
So your argument is, because you get a feature in one configuration but not in another, it's not a single client?
'Cause, y'know, I never had an operating system that needed a specific configuration to get access to a feature, did I?
There's been so much announced or casually mentioned lately with woefully inadequate supporting information that it's hard to figure out what the ultimate goal is. Ed (et al) need to get together, come up with ONE message, and tell the same story consistently. Right now it's so fractured and fragmented I'm scratching my head saying "wtf?".
I realize the impact of "casual mentions". I chose to blog about the beta last night because I was pleased to see the progress...because, for the most part, blogs are a "casual mention" place. Maybe we're graduating to where they shouldn't be, I don't know.
The ultimate goal is to ship a Notes 8 client that innovates, provides improvements over Notes 7, and is available in a flexible choice of confiugurations. Nothing about the last few weeks has changed that at all.
Kerr's explanation fits basically everything I've read on Notes architecture, including the Hannover morph into Notes 8. Thanks for tying it together so well.
- Rod
Another analogy for you might be from auto industry - usually a car comes in various configurations, but it's the same car - i.e. Toyota Camry LE, XLE, SE, etc. In the case of Notes, however, you don't have to think about which config you are purchasing, it's a deployment option for the customer.
Chris
