Minus two

by Volker Weber

Tuesday afternoon Elguji Software, LLC has informed the chairman of the OpenNTF Alliance of the withdrawal of Elguji from the Alliance. Two days later this change has not been propagated to the OpenNTF website, which was to be expected.

Elguji's flagship product is the award-winning IdeaJam, decorated with multiple Lotus Awards and an IBM Beacon Award. Maybe more importantly, Elguji was represented by Bruce "OpenNTF" Elgort. I am not going to speculate about reasons; you can imagine that Bruce would not abandon his child light-heartedly.

As I said at Minus one, I am going to count the bodies.


for sale, one anti-attack-kitten flak jacket, heavly used

Mark Myers, 2009-07-09

It’s sad that this had to happen. All us Domino types out there owe a massive thank you to Bruce for his support, encouragement and hard work over the years. OpenNTF will be a poorer place without his participation, but I hope it can pull itself out of the current situation and once again find some purpose.

Thanks Bruce, and thank you elguji!

Ben Poole, 2009-07-09

I always wear heavy armor. At least that's what I tell myself on the scales. :-)

Volker Weber, 2009-07-09

Bruce has "served his time" doing work for openntf over the years. Im sure the current projects he is on are taking up a lot of his time, and I wish openntf every success in the future.

Paul Mooney, 2009-07-09

I echo what Ben & Paul have already said. It's sad to see Bruce's involvement with OpenNTF ending, but I can see why, given all of his other family, community and day job commitments.

I wish Bruce, and the respective elguji and OpenNTF teams all of the very best for the future.

Frank Docherty, 2009-07-09

I see that OpenNTF Alliance is steering openntf in a direction that I *may* not like (and I don't feel proficient enough in English to engage into the discussion) but I think that a bit of faith into the work of Alliance members is deserved: for sure what they are doing is not easy.

anyway I do not understand this "counting the bodies": what is the benefit?

Giuseppe Grasso, 2009-07-09

Giuseppe, very simple. There is something happening that should not go unnoticed. Structure and process are illusions. It's the people who matter. I am counting those that only seem to not matter anymore.

Volker Weber, 2009-07-09

I like how you say that you're not going to speculate on the reasons and then speculate on the reasons.

Bruce has left OpenNTF behind once before, when he past leadership of the effort to Vince Schuurman in the first place. I won't speculate on reasons either, instead I simply asked Bruce.

Ed Brill, 2009-07-09

Leave it to Volker to carefully exploit the drama of the moment after news has escaped but background information is not yet available.
Barking dog seen running from yard. Man may have bitten dog.

Axel Nastansky, 2009-07-09

I can only imagine the *crap* that Bruce is getting in the back-channels from the Attack Kittens.

Bruce, hang tough.

---* Bill

Bill Buchan, 2009-07-09

Ed, you are not questioning Bruce's dedication to OpenNTF, or are you? He never left OpenNTF, he just handed the job of ombudsman to Vince. And I was there when it happened, and he received a long standing ovation from the crowd.

Also, Axel, I would not liken Bruce to a dog.

Volker Weber, 2009-07-09

My remark wasn't about Bruce at all. Bruce is a cool cat who lives right across the river from me. My 'man bites dog' analogy was aimed squarely at your effort to inject controversy while the facts aren't out yet. Just like you are trying to turn my response into a value statement about Bruce.

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

Axel Nastansky, 2009-07-09

Axel, looks like I owe you a :-). Here are a few more, and use them when in doubt. :-) :-) :-)

Volker Weber, 2009-07-09

Hey Volker.. I am trying to understand your level of interest in OpenNTF. I searched the project by chef and couldn't see your name. I searched the Forum by author and couldn't see your name. I even searched IdeaJam for you name and came up blank. Sitting up on a hill throwing stones at those down below with their sleeves rolled up and working hard doesn't seem to be the type of contribution the Notes community really needs. I imagine a person with your obvious intellect and passion for Notes could ever so easily be making a much more positive contribution to this product we all love.

Bruce... Thanks so much for all that you have done with OpenNTF and Ideajam. Your efforts are really appreciated by us all.

Peter Presnell, 2009-07-10

As one of the four people who built OpenNTF (along with Nathan, Bruce and Vince) I've kept in the background because until recently (by my own choice) I worked at a certain big company :-)

Some people may not realize how hard it was to grow the site to the place it is today. Bruce was very instrumental in that - spreading the word and getting recognition for the site apart from being involved in the site design. However, and this does not take away anything from Bruce, the site wouldn't have reached that point without the contributions from the community. Without some of the great contributions like domBulletin, domWiki, Blogsphere, and many others, all that work wouldn't have meant anything. OpenNTF really is a community driven effort.

We spent many hours even before IBM got involved, discussing how to take it to the next level. We also had interest from several big companies interested in using the apps on OpenNTF, but unwilling to deal with open source legal issues. I think the work that the Alliance group is doing now should be allowed to run its course before we write off OpenNTF - however ugly it is, this work really is necessary. The process to get to that point is somewhat uncharted territory and I think a lot of the complaints that people initially had with the changes have either been addressed or are being discussed. While having a lot of conference calls may sound useless to some people, its unfortunately necessary in this global environment where no two people are in the same place. If the board doesn't deliver what people expect - I'm sure they are willing to listen to reasons why you think something is bad, but please, give them a chance.

Anil Vartak, 2009-07-10

Thanks, Anil. I agree with you that OpenNTF has been a community effort. That is why I find it so unfortunate to see those bodies floating by. I am well aware of some of the power struggles that cause them, and I am not going to wade in there.

The one thing that I can do is not to turn a blind eye to the situation. As you can imagine, there is more than Minus one and Minus two in the pipeline, and it needs some radical changes to prevent them. I have some hope that the fact that I am watching might soften some of the struggles within. The last 24 hours have taught me otherwise. It appears the shouting has become louder.

Volker Weber, 2009-07-10

Old vowe.net archive pages

I explain difficult concepts in simple ways. For free, and for money. Clue procurement and bullshit detection.


Paypal vowe